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2over1

#1 User is offline   Laplace0 

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Posted 2021-January-27, 16:26

How to bid the following hand in 2over1:
87 86 J106 AKT986
after a 1 opening bid by Partner and silent opponent.
2 is GF and 3 is invitational with 9 to 12 points (Hardy). I excluded the non forcing 1NT bid for obvious reasons.
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#2 User is offline   shyams 

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Posted 2021-January-27, 16:31

I'd actually respond with 1NT.

If partner has a vanilla hand and is unable to move over my 1NT, I am fine with it. I realise that occasionally our side will miss out on game (when cards fit perfectly) but I am fine with taking that risk.
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#3 User is online   smerriman 

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Posted 2021-January-27, 16:47

I'm not sure what the obvious reasons for excluding 1NT were, since it seems an obvious 1NT to me.
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#4 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2021-January-27, 16:51

View PostLaplace0, on 2021-January-27, 16:26, said:

How to bid the following hand in 2over1:
87 86 J106 AKT986
after a 1 opening bid by Partner and silent opponent.
2 is GF and 3 is invitational with 9 to 12 points (Hardy). I excluded the non forcing 1NT bid for obvious reasons.


Given your methods, I think that either 3 or 1NT is reasonable
Those club intermediates (the T986) are incredibly valuable for a 3NT contract
Alderaan delenda est
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#5 User is online   helene_t 

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Posted 2021-January-27, 16:54

9-12 points is probably too wide. But if 9 is really in the range you should upgrade this hand. You have an almost-guaranteed fit and even if partner has a 4441 12-count you will probably make 3.

8 points is a quite pesimistic evaluation of this hand. You have JT in partner's suit and T98 in your own suit. Those intermediates would be worth some 2-3 points if you had a major suit fit. As it happens you (almost certainly) have a minor suit fit (maybe double fit) so you should not upgrade quite as aggressively, but still. If partner bids 3NT or 6 I would not be ashamed of laying this hand down as dummy.

You have a cold 5 opposite AKxx-x-KQxxx-Qxx and a good 3NT opposite QJx-QT9-AKxx-Qxx, both of which would pass a 1NT response (OK, the first might rebid 2 over 1NT so maybe a dubious example).

OK, those two hands were made up and you can of course always construct a perfect minimum for partner, so it's not so much that a 1NT response may miss game. It's more that you want to compete to 3 over opps' 2 or 2 contract, and you want partner to be able to sacrifice against a 4 or 4 contract if they have a suitable hand.

But most pairs require a tad more than this for a 3 response. You don't really want to invite opposite a balanced 12-14.

So 1NT is the normal response. I suppose the "obvious" reasons is that you don't want to play notrumps from you own hand, but that's something you have to live with if you decided to play a natural approach-forcing system with wide-ranging 1-level opening - except for the 1-1NT auction, the 1NT response does not promise a balanced hand and does certainly not show honours in the unbid suits. It's just a point count, basically. That it's non-forcing just means that due to a flaw in the system, partner will sometimes have to gamble that 1NT is a reasonable contract.
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#6 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2021-January-27, 17:03


Laplace0 '2 is GF and 3 is invitational with 9 to 12 points (Hardy). I excluded the non forcing 1NT bid for obvious reasons.'
++++++++++++++++++++
I rank
1. 1N NAT For obvious reasons :)
2. 3 NAT 9-12 HCP Slight overbid but might right-side 3N.
3. 2 G/F Gross overbid.

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#7 User is offline   Laplace0 

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Posted 2021-January-28, 06:45

Partners hand was:
Q8,Q98,KQT7632,QJ
I bid 3C, slight overbid :angry:, LHO jumped to 4S, which I doubled. Final contract 5C doubled 3 down. 4S are cold on a heart finesse, despite this our score was -8 IMPS. Anyway, I feel uncomfortable to bid NT with this major holding. By the way, our side can make only 3 tricks in NT.
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#8 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-January-28, 07:08

View PostLaplace0, on 2021-January-28, 06:45, said:

Partners hand was:
Q8,Q98,KQT7632,QJ
I bid 3C, slight overbid :angry:, LHO jumped to 4S, which I doubled. Final contract 5C doubled 3 down. 4S are cold on a heart finesse, despite this our score was -8 IMPS. Anyway, I feel uncomfortable to bid NT with this major holding. By the way, our side can make only 3 tricks in NT.


That's 14 cards 2372, 1N-4 is a bargain against 4, why are you doubling with possibly only one defensive trick if partner has some clubs ?
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#9 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2021-January-28, 08:14

View PostLaplace0, on 2021-January-28, 06:45, said:

Partners hand was:
Q8,Q98,KQT7632,QJ
I bid 3C, slight overbid :angry:, LHO jumped to 4S, which I doubled. Final contract 5C doubled 3 down. 4S are cold on a heart finesse, despite this our score was -8 IMPS. Anyway, I feel uncomfortable to bid NT with this major holding. By the way, our side can make only 3 tricks in NT.


3 is a perfectly reasonable bid

Why did you ever double?
You've already said your piece.
Alderaan delenda est
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#10 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2021-January-28, 09:08

It's very common in my area these days, but I still think its flaws are legion, to have 1-2 be GF. This is one of the reasons why. If you put this hand into the "not quite enough for 2/1, if you have a fit it'll run in 3NT, if you don't, it's still 2 or 3 tricks better played in my suit" 3, then you need a call for the same hand with another king. If that's also 3, partner will *never* guess right. But the advantages of this auction are also legion (or people whose bridge I admire wouldn't play it), so this is a hand type sacrificed on the altar of game bidding, I guess.

I echo everyone else on the double. When you've shown your values, especially when you've overshown your values, now is the time to let partner make the decision.
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#11 User is offline   Laplace0 

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Posted 2021-January-28, 10:16

Sorry, Partner had 6 NV against V. My double was DSIP and I don't blame Partners decision going to the 5th level. The blind 4 bid with a 5card suit finding a strong 4card holding in partner could be bbo "specific". 1 down in 4 is bad score in MP if 3 are makeable but playing IMP I should perhaps pass, I agree (?). Glad that many of you would have bid 3 and thanks all for the comments.
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